Old Man Renaissance
![9900VinceCarterSupermanDunk[1]](https://courtsidenotes.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/9900vincecartersupermandunk1.jpg)
Kobe. KG. TD. Nashty. Vinsanity.
Greats of the 90s and early 2000s. So much so that it would be understandable to expect a decline or shadows of previous selves to emerge. But not for this bunch! Take a look at these averages:
Kobe Bryant:
30.5ppg, 5.2rpg, 4.7apg, 1.6stls, 48.3% FG
Kevin Garnett:
14.7ppg, 7.0rpg, 1stl, 51.4% FG
Tim Duncan:
17.7ppg, 9.6rpg, 2.6apg, 2.5bpg, 51.3% FG, 81.2% FT (career high!)
Steve Nash:
10.3ppg, 8.3apg, 52.8% FG, 42.1% 3PT, 100% FT
Vince Carter:
Actually giving a crap for the Mavs.
Lots of questions here…
- Did we miss any other oldies?
- What is up with the longevity of these guys? Sports science? True greatness?
- Who has been the biggest surprise in terms of what they are producing?
- Who is closest to retiring? Who’s looking like they’ll hang on until they become UNproductive?
Take it away!
Courtside Notes 
naturalbornanalysts 9:37 am on January 9, 2013 Permalink |
Ah the years of Reggie, Hakeem, T-Mac, Shaq…
So what do we consider old man in the NBA game? You have guys like Kidd and Thomas who are OLD and then you have veterans over the age of 30 or so… Considering most guys peak performance is around 25-28 I would think, I will say 32 and over is worth of an NBA pensioner’s card.
Does Paul Pierce count as an old guy (he’s 35)? His numbers this year:
19.9ppg, 5,5rpg, 3.9apg
What about Andrei Kirilenko (yeah I had to get a wolf in here) who is almost 32 and throwing up:
13.3ppg on 51.6%, 1.4bpg, 1.5spg, 6.8rpg, 3.1 apg
Last one that I can think of is David West who is also 32:
16.8ppg, 8.0rpg … but more importantly I think he is keeping the Pacers afloat with Granger out, Hibbert just being flat out awful, and Paul George inconsistent at best.
I cant tell you what this is down to, perhaps it was a bit of golden age for the NBA, or conversely (and probably more likely), there was a reduction in truly top quality players coming into the league?
Im sure sports science and medicine has a lot to do with it. 20 years ago, if you did your ACL you were almost done, but now you can come back and almost set a single season rushing record after minimal time off rehabbing (perhaps even lead your team into the ECF?).
Biggest surprise to me? Tie between Kobe and Duncan. I thought Kobe’s production would slow with the signing of Dwight and Nash, and then when they went out, I thought his efficiency would drop, but he is being the most efficient of his career from the field.
And Duncan is just in beast-mode so far this season. I guess nothing should surprise anymore when you talk about San Antonio.
Surely Kidd is just about done? He is having a nice year, but I have to think he is almost done after this year. KG was close to retiring, and I could see him hanging it up this year if Boston crumble and have an early exit. Kobe definitely hangs on to chase that 6th.
Is there anyone who you thought retired too soon from this era of ball?
Who of these guys is the most valuable to their team?
jk41 10:27 am on January 9, 2013 Permalink |
Yeah I think 32 is a good figure for over the hill, for some guys the hill is just a higher so theyre still producing, just not what they were.
Pierce I’d take, although he’s lacking that little something so far this year. I haven’t watched much of the C’s but is he still carrying them to wins? I think the difference is that Kobe, TD can still carry their teams to wins, whereas your Kidds and Kurt Thomas’ are playing good for their age, but not dictating the W or L for their team.
Kidd is almost there. Even Nash as well in my eyes. There hasn’t been much to go on and it seems like his game is timeless (efficient, not relying on athleticism) but he just looks old. Maybe it’s the haircut!
I thought Sheed did leave early, and maybe why he came back in the end. He was keeping that Celtics team in that Game 7 of the Finals they lost to the Lakers. Thought Peja might have had more to give, given he is a shooter, although it could have been injuries. He had a great playoff run with Dallas and good that he finally got a ring.
I’d say Duncan. The way I’m thinking about it is: if you took that guy off their team, which would suffer the most? Lakers still have firepower in Dwight, Nash and could plug the SG spot with Jodie Meeks if they lost Kobe. KG is similar to TD. He’s just not putting up career like numbers but if they were to lose him, the effect is similar with having to plug Sullinger or whoever else in there. In fact, the Spurs could be better off than the Celtics having Splitter and DeJuan Blair around and seasoned.
Hard question the other way around, but which guys in their peak today seem like they’ll just keep going on and on? Lebron’s never had a major injury. Westbrook has missed like 6 competitive games since high school!
naturalbornanalysts 12:11 pm on January 14, 2013 Permalink
Pierce is still so clutch though. He hits massive shots, and is still the go to guy in Boston. As much as the talk seemed to be of Rondo becoming more assertive on the offensive end, it has remained the Truth’s team. He isnt on Duncan or Kobe’s level, but he certainly is still in the top SF in the game.
Nash’s offensive stats are still nice, and he sees the floor well, but he cant guard anybody… he wouldnt be able to guard Jack Nicholas.
Peja is a good candidate for leaving the game too early. All he did was shoot 3’s, and if Mike Miller can still hobble around and do it, Im sure that Peja could have.
I wish I could put Brandon Roy in this group too.
I think Kobe is most valuable to that team. I honestly dont know if they win half the games this season if they dont have Kobe going HAM. He is playing out of his mind so far this year, and I just cant see anyone else filling the 30+ pts a game he is putting up.
Agreed it is a close second with Duncan though. He does it all.
Yeah if LeBron stays healthy, it probably isnt long before he passes Bird as the greatest SF of all time. Westbrook, less so because he relies on speed and athleticism, and father time seems to catch up with those guys quicker. What about Durant? Every year he gets better and better, as shown by his triple double this season. I really think there is a chance he enters the conversation for best player in the game in a few years.
I will hold my tongue on opinions of Rose/Love/Rubio as injuries are really killing our dreams right now.
jk41 2:46 am on January 16, 2013 Permalink
I think I was listening to too much Simmons expecting Rondo to break out into this nightly triple double and it hasn’t happened…anyway I digress. Yeah sometimes with these older guys they do take a while to ‘get into’ the season and come April and playoffs time they’re prime and hitting those big shots.
Even if Bron does lose his athleticism I could totally see him playing on the block the exactly same way as Karl Malone. Even their body shapes are kind of similar! That’s what makes him interesting because he’s positionless. And then does that makes his case to pass up other SFs like Bird because he’ll play PF later in his career? Something to watch and see how he approaches it.
Westbrook just plain needs to get smarter, and he better do it before his spring gives out.
Thing about Durant is that you can still see so much improvement available. Can you imagine him with a mid range post game a la second three-peat MJ? With that height he would be devastating! The Durant/Lebron battle over the next few years will be our version of Magic/Bird.
One thing that seems consistent over recent NBA history is that it does take that 6-8 seasons with the right progression (usually a ring) until you can put your hat into the ‘great’ discussion. MJ was drafted ’84 and didn’t get his first ring til ’91–Year 7. Bron was in the ’03 draft and with his ring last year it was the last hurdle to getting into the legit great discussion–Year 9 for him. KD was drafted ’07, so his time is slowly creeping up.
I think our guys drafted in the 08-09 region will show their candidacy in the next few years. Which is great for us!